New brainstorming : Track stunts & features

[Kinsu]

In the feature wishlist poll, we agreed STK needs more tracks. We can't control a lot how people contribute and create tracks, but we can help them thinking to content that can be added to tracks.

So, what features would you like to see in an STK track ?

And what should be kept or from the existing tracks, or avoided in the future ones ?

[Kinsu]

(From the feature wishlist thread)

Do we need track improvements (i.e. what would be more important: making the existing tracks better, or getting more more tracks, even if the quality is not as good)?

Maybe we should define what criteria do make a track a good quality track, this is not really obvious to me.
I am tempted to say it includes the difficulty (and alternative way possibilities), maybe also the decor details, graphic quality and of course the triangles count... I really like Canis Lupus tracks, they are pretty immersive. The bovine barnyard is also very cool.

I would say that maybe graphic quality is one of the things the current tracks need the most to be improved. Also, some acrobatic features as we said : loopings, jumps and cannons, a little as in some tracks in Trackmania (so improving tracks may also mean improving physics ), and more interactive content, as exploding barrels, floating objects on rivers (maybe on a river of some track we could make a little frogster-like game ) camels that cross the road, thwomps-like objects, Prince-of-persia-like traps (and drive on the walls !), could make the tracks much much funnier.

By the way, I really liked the lava tunnel in the 0.7 Fort Magma, I think the 0.7.1 version with a bridge offers a flatter gameplay.

[Auria]

Hi,

I agree on pretty much everything you say
For a track to be of good quality, two aspects are needed :
1) fun gameplay (a good road shape; not too straight, not too curvy, curves that are not too hard to take, but not too easy either; large enough to overtake others; not too many steep slopes; etc...)
2) nice graphics

We have also been working on making contents more interactive - many of the items you have posted should be doable in the current state of STK, we just need to actually include that in tracks.

I also agree about the Fort Magma tunnel, I asked Samuncle to make it more challenging to drive

[hiker]

Hi,

I agree on pretty much everything you say
For a track to be of good quality, two aspects are needed :
1) fun gameplay (a good road shape; not too straight, not too curvy, curves that are not too hard to take, but not too easy either; large enough to overtake others; not too many steep slopes; etc...)

And that would also depend on the final physics: e.g. if my implementation will work good enough you will get a skid bonus if you skid for a certain amount of time. That would mean that tracks should have 'appropriate' curves for skidding (some might be easier, some more complicated to drive properly).

Also general things that make tracks more interesting: animations on the track, 'things' that affect where a kart can drive (sheep crossing the road, or the UFO discussed elsewhere), ...

But I think to define what makes a track interesting is quite difficult

Cheers,
Joerg

[Kinsu]

A skid bonus could be a nice feature to add, and as it is not directly related to tracks it can potentially add more interest to every map (and even more to those who have the appropriate curves).

Could some parts of the road be dynamic (I mean easily) ? If yes this kind of things could be added (in the underwater track for this one ?)

rotating_tubes.jpg (11.33 KiB) Viewed 12427 times

[Auria]

that's a good idea though I don't know if the current physics support that; I think not because at this time moving objects are approximated using a box or a sphere. So maybe in the future

[hiker]

that's a good idea though I don't know if the current physics support that; I think not because at this time moving objects are approximated using a box or a sphere. So maybe in the future

Technically it's possible (i.e. we can modify the physics mesh, and iirc the bullet vehicle demo actually does this), but implementing this would be a huge effort (specifying this in the exporter, reading this in and implementing this, ...). But I am thinking about this as well - it would make for more interesting tracks, but honestly I can't see this happening till after 1.0 (though who knows - there is still some room at around 0.9, we can't 'only' add networking ).

Hmm - but now that I have written that: some simple rotating cylinders should actually nearly work: just export them as objects with IPOs, and that should be all ... except that the cylinders are closed, so you can't actually drive through them. What about (as a test only) to use some boxes (long and flat, so that they are more like a plane you drive on) - that might work already. If this does work, I would be more than happy to add some support for more flexibility: I am not sure how much work would be involved to implement an open cylinder (might need specific collision detection function), but adding support for moving triangle meshes (see UFO thread elsewhere here) might be feasible, which would give you exactly what you need.

Cheers,
Joerg

[Kinsu]

Yes, this is wise to try out if Bullet can manage continuous collisions with moving objects first, then adding more collison shapes. I won't be doing it soon, but I keep it in mind (if anyone wants to do it before, feel free ! ).

If it works, even some existing tracks could use it. In Fort magma and the canyon, bridges could swing and react to karts that drive through, in the secret garden lilies could also be dynamic, ...

[Kinsu]

Someone talked about a reverse-track mode... I think it would be a simple and efficient way to increase STK's playing lifespan, reusing existing maps. Would that take a lot of time to add this feature to the game ?

[hiker]

Someone talked about a reverse-track mode... I think it would be a simple and efficient way to increase STK's playing lifespan, reusing existing maps. Would that take a lot of time to add this feature to the game ?

No, not that much time I'd guess. We have to reverse the graph which determines the sequence of quads you are driving on, which is simple. More difficult is the sequence of check lines - I have to think about this.

We also might need a flag to indicate which tracks can be driven in reverse (while I don't think that this is an issue atm there might be tracks that can't be driven in reverse, e.g. if there would be a jump somewhere).

Mirroring a track would probably be less work - multiplying the x coordinate with -1 for everything. It's only finding everything that's the problem

Cheers,
Joerg

[acme_pjz]

Hi,

Mirroring a track would probably be less work - multiplying the x coordinate with -1 for everything. It's only finding everything that's the problem

Don't forget to reverse the normal vector and change the culling mode ...

[Kinsu]

there might be tracks that can't be driven in reverse, e.g. if there would be a jump somewhere

Yes, this is the case for the secret garden.

[Arthur]

Secret Garden wouldn't be too hard to fix - just extend the invisible road area down. But there have been rumors and some screenshots of a new Secret Garden track, so spending much time on the old one might be a waste.

[hiker]

Don't forget to reverse the normal vector and change the culling mode ...

Ah yes, and there's probably more details I am not thinking of (e.g. animations on the track).

So - not that easy

Cheers,
Joerg

[asciimonster]

I'm not sure how easy this is to do: If I finish within 0.1 sec of my opponent, an automatic photo-finish slow-motion replay is shown...
Preferably, the finish line is projected on screen in the replay.

[Auria]

I'm not sure how easy this is to do: If I finish within 0.1 sec of my opponent, an automatic photo-finish slow-motion replay is shown...
Preferably, the finish line is projected on screen in the replay.

This would be VERY nice, agreed
We'd need to code the replay feature first but then it wouldn't be so hard

[LinuxUser]

And what about something like an extra lap, or a single-lap race if you tie? I know that in the past, I found it crashed if you tied (yes, it did happen). I guess it would have to be an extra race, as you would have the photo finish beforehand.

[Auria]

And what about something like an extra lap, or a single-lap race if you tie? I know that in the past, I found it crashed if you tied (yes, it did happen). I guess it would have to be an extra race, as you would have the photo finish beforehand.

well actual ties are almost impossible, since the timing is very precise. So I'm not sure if it's worth taking into consideration

[LinuxUser]

Yes, that is true, but it should not crash or anything (as it has for me a couple of times at least).

[hiker]

Yes, that is true, but it should not crash or anything (as it has for me a couple of times at least).

I am quite sure that your crashes are unrelated to a tie. A real tie would mean that you have to cross the finishing line at the same frame - and even then the karts are handled one by one, so the kart with the lowest start position would finish earlier. Of course, there could be bugs, but i doubt that it is related to tying for a position.

Since it appears that you have this crash often, could you run stk in a debugger and provide a stack trace?

Thanks!
Joerg

[LinuxUser]

It has only happened two or three times, and only when it has been either a tie, or very close. If it ever happens again, I will see what I can do. It was probably in 0.6.2, so it may have since been fixed.

[1210phil1210]

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[KroArtem]

Some more links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9a-pQbL ... re=related
It is an epic game, I think I should find it on my pc and play a bit ^^
Oh, and Nick toons also supports split screen, cups (championships), powerups and so on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2kaQCZ0huc
Mad Tracks, another awesome game, supports split screen, career mode, funny mini-games, weapon choice, etc

[Kinsu]

Would it be long to add more surfaces-specific physical effects, as the zipper ?
I'm thinking about a kind of "bumper" :

Drive on surface & bump

Also, a skid-like-on-ice-effect, as already evoked, would enable track makers to have more possibilities...

[hiker]

Would it be long to add more surfaces-specific physical effects, as the zipper ?
I'm thinking about a kind of "bumper" :

stk-bump.jpg

Also, a skid-like-on-ice-effect, as already evoked, would enable track makers to have more possibilities...

Well, it could probably be done as a kind of impulse that acts on a kart, but I am not sure about the game play: if you add an animation of a bumper like in the picture (which is triggered when you hit this texture), then what should happen to a kart just following? If it should stop (like hitting a wall), we would actually need to modify the physics as well, which is when things are getting more complicated.

Cheers,
Joerg